Well, that's just it. Because I make it a point to read the bible for an hour twice a week and when I read it I don't look at it as a skeptic or as though it were claiming to be a history book but I just enjoy the stories for what they are. I try to relate situations that had already happened to me and I think if I had made the right decisions.

So yeah... When situations like the examples I gave before come up again in my daily life, I automatically stop and think twice. Since I had consciously spent time reflecting on my past actions. And that reflection was based on the teachings of Christ. Ive chosen Christ as I can relate to his rebellious nature and need to challenge authority but at the same time helping the weak and needy. But I think that any spiritual path or religion a person chooses is valid. As long as they actually spend some time reflecting on their own personal situations and behavior along with reading the philosophy of the chosen religion with an open and non-skeptical mind.

It does not really cross my mind whether it is what God expects of me. And I guess the immediate reward that I get from being a "Good Samaritan" (btw, a bible reference) is a good feeling which can last for an hour or even put me in a good mood, good spirits if you will, for a whole day . When I automatically say "no" and continue walking, I usually soon after, regret not giving some money or standing up on the bus for an old man etc. It kind of makes me feel down.

In short... yes the time spent reading the bible helps me prepare to make better moral decisions in my daily life. And no I dont have a fear of God, heaven, judgment etc. These are all concepts that I cant even pretend to imagine. I guess like everyone, I'll find out when the time comes. For now, I can just try to be a better me. And my chosen religion allows for slow learners like me.

 

You raise an interesting point in this part of your post.

Can you explain the point of the "Good Samaritan" story to me please ?

 

I do not need a book to tell me to feel sympathy for people who are struggling, I already know that it helps the group if you help the individual. I also know that at times certain individuals or groups of people need to be eliminated from society.

 

Sure, well I can try to explain my own personal interpretation of the story.

I have pasted the original from the bible below, for those not familiar with the story.

– Luke 10:30–37

"Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.' Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbour to him who fell among the robbers?"

He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

– Luke 10:30–37

Well when I read this story for the first time. I my first reflection was on those who I pass in my life and ask for and truly need help. For me, my first thoughts were of the "street kids" which are abundant in my city and not of my class. Many in the city see poverty as the problem of the poor and not the middle and upper classes. And therefore rarely help them. For the most part these kids were born in to the shit of humanity. I dont know how many of you have seen the conditions of a slum in Rio de Janeiro. But it is pretty hopeless.

During my reflection of this story, I related "the street kids" as being "robbed and abused" by our government like the Jew who was left beaten on the side of the road. Brazilian government provides next to no support or opportunity for them to hope for. Often the parents dont give a fuck about them and/or cant support them. Anyway just as the Samaritan didn't cross the road, I now try to make it a point not to avoid them and in fact even go a little out of my way to help them in my daily life. I even have some that know me now and I can even consider them friends. I enjoy chatting with them as they are always in good spirits while they are eating their sandwich and juice. Anyway, that was my original reflection of the story. It also applies to almost every other situation when I see someone who needs a hand I take the initiative. In the past I may of hesitated more as I was shy or didn't want to stick out or look odd. But now I like the good feeling that I am rewarded with and I like to see the smiles on the people's faces. Again it makes me feel good at the here and now.

Regarding this story, it is important to note that "a Samaritan" was from a nation which was considered to be enemies to the Jews.

The fact that Jesus chose to use a Jewish priest, and the other noble Jew who avoided the victim, shows Jesus' disapproval of organized religions' hypocrisy and also the hypocrisy of fellow Jews. The fact that he chose to put the Samaritan, an enemy of the victim, as the one to stop and care excessively for his fallen brother, is a clear example of Jesus' principle teaching which is do good to your brother and do not hold grudges. Anyway that's what I get from this story. I'd be interested to here the interpretation of others.

 

It's not important to note, It's the entire point, the two people that were supposed to help passed by and the guy that would not be expected to help did so.

I think that it's easy to help the people that you want to, but that's not being a christian, that's just being a decent person.

 

Yeah, well like I said spirituality is not for everyone. And many Atheists can and do live moral lives. I did. However, I think that you are depriving yourself an excellent "tool" for personal development. It is a personal thing and if its not for you, its not for you. But you see the point that I was trying to make about arrogance. Your religious views are no more intelligent or logical then anyone else's. We don't know.

LOL!!! well arn't you a good Nazi this evening. Care to elaborate?

 

Umm just so you know you are an arrogant prick... ok. Anyway, I said "it is important to note" as people who dont have knowledge of the politics at the time may not pick up on it. As you can clearly see from my interpretation and practical use of the morals I personally fully understand the meaning of the passage.. I am sorry if you disapprove of my humble wording. Next time I will be more arrogant in the wording that I choose in the future.

I think that you should read my post again. I clearly said that I help those who ask me for help and who really do need my help.

I also said that I use christian philosophy to reflect and use as self- improvement.

I have told you before that I am not worried if you or others consider me a christian, because I personally don't consider them Christians either.

So Michael Saint, As you have criticized my faith for a second time on this thread. I think it would only be right for you to point out the things that I should be doing differently to call myself a christian. As I have told you before, I am still discovering my spirituality and am constantly changing opinions. Please let me know what I have to do differently to be considered christian? Please read my previous posts too. I don't want to have to dig up my own quotes again.

 

Easy answer, Brazi.

Stop distinguishing between sins that affect other people and sins that don't - because they're all the same in Christ's eyes. That's what you need to do.

You say you have 'personal sins' that affect no-one but you. If you were a Christian, you'd see the wrong in that - every sin you commit affects Christ, since He died to absolve them. Thus, you should be abstaining from private sinful behaviours as you do public behaviours.

 

Why would I need a book that celebrates, rape, slavery, misogyny, hebephilia and infanticide, as a moral compass. I know it is my place in life to protect my sons and not offer them up as a sacrifice, I know that it is wrong to offer my daughter to be raped by the locals so as to protect a stranger, I know that ladies are the equal if not better of me, I know it is wrong to enslave people. So in total I don't need your bible to be a good person
Also I have no religious views, I have views on religion and they are logical, unlike yours which proclaim a god and a messiah without any empirical proof.

No I won't elaborate, use your obvious intelligence and think abut the statement, then look at your local community and the world at large and you will see the answer.

 

As I said before, I am early in my spiritual development. I would hope to live with out the sin of fornication but unfortunately I am still not at that level of faith yet. I imagine realistically breaking this sin when I find the right girl to settle down with. I was married for seven years, as an atheist. During those seven years, I did not cheat on my wife once. I already know that I can live without fornication, I just need to find the right girl. But this is a goal in my spiritual path.

As for drugs, I still have not seen any relative bible passages that tell me not to use them. However, I am still new to Christianity. I would be interested to see any biblical quotes on the subject. if any exist. I am still learning.

Since we know that the bible has been corrupted. Would it not be logical to take an interpretation based on the big picture of Christs teachings and not all the little details. Since we do not know which things were added for the purpose of political control?

Do I have to become an instant "perfect Christian" or can I still call myself a christian if I continue to work (strive) towards improving my morals according to the teachings of Christ?

As for the part about Christ dying for our sins and therefore being offended when we sin, I think you are taking an extremely catholic interpretation of this.

I interpret this part of the religion as meaning that Christ lead a movement against the Jewish church in order to to break the strict Jewish traditions and things that they considered sins. He was then killed by the Romans and Jews for this fight against unnecessary rules and abuse of power. Therefore Christ really did die for our sins but he started a religion in wich there were much less sins then the Jewish church. I do not think that Christ sheds a tear every time that I sin.

Iam seriously open to any polite comments on any of this. Thanks.

 

You are completely right! You don't need the bible to be a good person. I have said this several times. I just happens to be the spiritual path that I personally chose. There are many atheists who live moral lives. And are very good to others. If you are content with atheism, then good for you. Don t change. It has never been my intention to convert anybody. I just want to here people's opinions on my religious beliefs since I know they are different. They seem to make sense to me.

I think you have a very Old Testament view of the bible. This is not Christianity but more Juedisim. I think if you read the New testament, you would find it to be a totally different vibe. In fact that was exactly Jesus' mission, to point out the faults and hypocrisy in the Old Testament or the Torra as the Jews like to call it.

I have spoken very openly about my religious views and the logic that I followed. You have been voiced your opinion several times about my views. Could you at least share with us, the logic that you followed to come to your own personal religious views?

LOL

 

How can there be hypocrisy in the word of an infallible god, how can there be faults?

Judaism. Torah. (a little help with your spelling, I would not have drawn any attention to it but you expressed a desire to be corrected over spellings, and I do appreciate that your English is infinitely better than my Portuguese).

I have no religious views, I am an atheist which precludes them. My views on religion are that logic dictates that there cannot be a god. On a fundamental level and one that you testified to, everything needs to be created therefore who created god? There is no logical answer that indicates that god was created (except in the minds of man) therefore logic dictates that there is no god. Your religious views are based in blind faith and I refuse to follow a path of such importance without a map or chart.

It was not meant as a flippant answer, there are people who do not deserve to live, paedophiles, murderers etc.

 

Ok. Fair enough. Thanks for the spelling corrections. But I still disagree about the logic. See my previous posts if you care... If not, continue on with your belifs if they make you happy and content.

 

As for the question of my own personal religion, Webster's dictionary defines "a Christian" as "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ." I believe that I fit into this definition.

When we start to argue among Christians about who is really christian or not, this is where the ugly side of religion starts to rear its head. A protestant will say that a catholic is not correct and the catholic will say that the protestant is wrong. I am sure that the one here who can best testify, first hand to the negative results of this evil game of organized religion is richief.

And I do not think that this nit picking of other Christians interpretations of the bible reflects the spirit of Jesus Christ in any way. His whole purpose was to give a much more relaxed view of spirituality and religion then that which already existed in the Jewish church at the time.

In the end we are all just men reading the same book and coming to our own individual understanding of the message that Jesus tried to project throughout his teachings. One man's interpretations is no more accurate then another man's.

 

So I've done some reading of the New Testament, I'm afraid it's not looking so good either

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
..........Matthew 10:34


"'But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.'"
..........Luke 19:27


(parable) "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."
..........John 15:6


"The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth."
..........Matthew 13:49

"And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one."
..........Luke 22:36

Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law.
..........Luke 12:51

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of god rests upon him."
.........John 3:36


"And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating."
..........Luke 12:47


"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."
..........Luke 14:26

"Let all who are under the yoke slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren; rather they must serve all the better since those that benefit by their service are believers and beloved."
..........1 Timothy 6:1

"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservants do."
"Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes...."
..........Luke 12:37

Likewise, you wives, be submissive to your husbands..."
..........1 Peter 3:1

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
..........Timothy 2:11

 

Nice!! Enough of this soft flexibly theories. Time to move on to the hard stuff.:excited: I haven't read the quotes yet but Ill get back to you this afternoon.

 

and 100 % of ' itiswhatitis' believes .....

 

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I warned you from my first post that my beliefs were different. lol

 

You have presented your reasoning.

Your reasoning does not follow the rules of logic. Thus, it may seem reasonable to you (and to others) but it is not logical.